- comment
.... - body
- Waiting for the memo from the USCCB on the Death Penalty and Immigration...
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- They've already been pretty up front about both issues. I'm really surprised they haven't come out with a statement backing Cardinal Mahoney quite yet.
- comment ....
- body
- http://www.usccb.org/mrs/hr4437.shtml
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- Well good.
Unfortunately this is the kind of stuff that doesn't get much play up here in Virginia. Not a border state, so it's just not on the radar for us I guess.
- comment Mike
- body
- I applaud the efforts of the USCCB ... now, if they would just take that one little step further, reasserting the multitudinous condemnations of liberalism and socialism, then ALL Catholic Democrats would be forced to either leave the Democrat party or live in heresy!!!
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09212a.htm
- comment Mike
- body
- My point was not so much political as it was doctrinal. When you read the encyclicals referring to socialism, communism, liberalism, and Modernism, it becomes quite clear that there are DEFINITELY certain political stances (aside from abortion) that one may not take.
- comment Hayenon
- body
- I say if Polititians who vote for abortion even though they personally believe its wrong, but who don't want to force their faith on someone else, they must not really believe its wrong. The Bishops (their Shepards) should just excommunicate them and be done.
No one should be forced to do anything, that is why God gave us free-will. But if you say you are Catholic, that means you have certain beliefs that you hold dear in your heart.
Most polititians believe that stealing is wrong, or rape is wrong, but obviously the thief or rapest does'nt, yet Kennedy and Kerry don't have any problem putting their beliefs on the thief or rapest on these issues but not the murder of an unborn, the most defenseless of all?
I say excommunicate all so called Polititians who say they are Catholic, when actually they are not true Catholics.
True Catholics believe life begins at conception, and to take that life away is nothing but MURDER, no matter how you slice it!
God writes His laws into all mens hearts, and there are just some things that are wrong (evil, sinful) without even thinking about...
Killing, Stealing, raping, lying, etc. It don't take a rocket scientist to know this. Nor should it take a written law from heretics.
Heretic
"one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine"
- comment Riley
- body
- We need some good, hardcore cardinals who will support heresy trials for elected officials. Seriously.
- comment ....
- body
- Just lovely, should we open preceding on Jews, which’s, and Muslims as well?
While the Catholic Theology is quite complex, i must mention that all that is required to be a Catholic is simply the points of the apostle's creed.
I believe in God the Father Almighty Creator of Heaven and earth, And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, Suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried, He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead, He ascended into Heaven, and now sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, I believe in the Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, The forgiveness of sins, life everlasting and politicians who vote just as the church tells them too
Oh right, that’s not in the statement of our faith, ha, my mistake.
- comment Mike
- body
- Nova,
If you pay close attention to the Apostle's Creed, you will notice that it SUPPORTS what we have been saying regarding pro-abortion, socialistic politicians.
According to your logic, because the Apostle's Creed doesn't mention it specifically, I can be a syncretist (believing that all religions are equal paths to God), I can be a gnostic, I can believe in reincarnation ... except for one little thing.
The Apostle's Creed states SPECIFICALLY, "I believe in the Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints ..." This is to say that "I Believe" that all the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church are directed, protected, and maintained by the Holy Spirit. In other words, you SUBMIT to the authority and the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church, regardless of whether it is specifically mentioned in the Creed or not.
As such, the Creed is NOT all that you are bound to. If the Holy Catholic Church says that Catholic Politicians excommunicate themselves by publically supporting, in a political office or other, ANYTHING antithetical to Catholic teaching, then that excommunication is binding here as well as in Heaven. Period. No discussion, no squabbling ... those politicians are de facto OUTSIDE of the Church.
When Politicians advocate Marxist ideals (90% of the Democrat platform) which have been condemned by the Church, when politicians advocate immorality (such as homosexuality, abortion, contraception, etc), and when politicians promote syncretism, naturalism, and modernism, they remove themselves from the Church because they DENY the belief in the Holy Catholic Church, mentioned in the Creed.
In regards to heresy trials … they SHOULD be enacted. While a church court holds no temporal weight in the United States (meaning a convicted heretic in a Catholic Court will see no jail time, fines, etc) such a trial would act as a public condemnation of such actions and send a message to the rest of the Catholic world that such beliefs and actions are completely incompatible with Catholic teaching. You bet we should have heresy trials, if for no other reason than to put an end to the confusion existent in the Church regarding what is ok and what is not.
- comment Riley
- body
- NOVA, that is just stupid to equate heresy trials by the Catholic Church against members of their own congregation to going after Jews, Muslims, witches, etc. Heresy trials are an established procedure that is part of the Catholic Church structure and hierarchy. It has nothing to do with anyone belonging to any other religion or no religion at all. I could care less what Willis does in his life in his parents' basement, but when a public official like Ted Kennedy goes around proclaiming himself to be a devout Catholic while publicly supporting and voting for policies that fly in the face of Church teachings, I've got a problem with that.
Talk to me when you've gotten your law degree from a Catholic law school. Until then, talk about what you know and leave the rest to the professionals.
- comment ....
- body
- Mike: I was just pointing out that all it takes to be a Catholic is to fundamentally agree with all the points in the Apostles Creed. And why wouldn’t we try governors in "heresy trials" for carrying out a death sentences?
Riley: I was confused on your use of the term heresy; I certainly am not as read as i should be on the subject.
In regards to: "Until then, talk about what you know and leave the rest to the professionals." Famous last words:-)
- comment Mike
- body
- Nova,
1) The Apostle's Creed contains the bottom line statements regarding what is required to believe in order to be Catholic, however, as I pointed out, there is an awful LOT beneath each statement in order for the fulness of belief to be present. The Apostle's Creed doesn't say that you have to go to Mass every Sunday, but as a Catholic, you are bound to do such a thing. The Apostle's Creed also doesn't mention that one must NOT receive Holy Communion while in a state of Mortal sin, but to do so is sacrelidge. The Apostle's Creed doesn't mention that a Catholic who becomes a Freemason automatically excommunicates himself, but such is outlined in several papal encyclicals.
There is a plethora of things one must believe which are not properly defined by the Apostle's Creed. Take a good look at Pope Pius IX's Syllabus of Errors http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm or Pope Pius X's Oath against Modernism http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10moath.htm or Pope Gregory XVI's encyclical on Liberalism and Religious Indifferentism http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/G16MIRAR.HTM, or Pope Pius XI's encyclical on Reconstruction of the Social Order (condemning liberalism) http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11QUADR.HTM, or Pope Leo XIII's Encyclical on Socialism (condemning it, and I want you to keep closely in mind that MUCH of the Democrat platform is socialistic) http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13APOST.HTM. These encyclicals are 100% binding on ALL Catholics, and if you deny even one of them, then you deny the "belief in the Holy Catholic Church". When you compare what the Church professes and binds on all of her members and you compare these with the platforms of the Democrat party, you will find very quickly that those platforms are incompatible with the Catholic Church.
You seem like an intelligent person. If you want to be intellectually honest, then become as informed as possible and see for yourself what I just outlined for you.
2) We wouldn't try governors for heresy for carrying out death sentences because the death sentence is not antithetical to the faith. While it may be argued that the death penalty is no longer a just form of punishment (I still go back and forth on this issue), the Church has not outrightly condemned the practice. It HAS, however, condemned the practice of abortion, and all members of the Church are bound to support this condemnation. Personally, I think that an interdict should be called in all areas where a "Catholic" politician is actively supporting the practice of abortion. For instance, do you think that Catholics would vote for Ted Kennedy if they were denied the sacraments because they elected him for his pro-abortion stance?
- comment Mike
- body
- Nova,
In light of your Catholic beliefs, how can you reconcile your faith (remember the encyclicals I posted) with the Democrat platform?
14 Comments:
Unfortunately this is the kind of stuff that doesn't get much play up here in Virginia. Not a border state, so it's just not on the radar for us I guess.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09212a.htm
No one should be forced to do anything, that is why God gave us free-will. But if you say you are Catholic, that means you have certain beliefs that you hold dear in your heart.
Most polititians believe that stealing is wrong, or rape is wrong, but obviously the thief or rapest does'nt, yet Kennedy and Kerry don't have any problem putting their beliefs on the thief or rapest on these issues but not the murder of an unborn, the most defenseless of all?
I say excommunicate all so called Polititians who say they are Catholic, when actually they are not true Catholics.
True Catholics believe life begins at conception, and to take that life away is nothing but MURDER, no matter how you slice it!
God writes His laws into all mens hearts, and there are just some things that are wrong (evil, sinful) without even thinking about...
Killing, Stealing, raping, lying, etc. It don't take a rocket scientist to know this. Nor should it take a written law from heretics.
Heretic
"one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine"
While the Catholic Theology is quite complex, i must mention that all that is required to be a Catholic is simply the points of the apostle's creed.
I believe in God the Father Almighty Creator of Heaven and earth, And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, Suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried, He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead, He ascended into Heaven, and now sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, I believe in the Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, The forgiveness of sins, life everlasting and politicians who vote just as the church tells them too
Oh right, that’s not in the statement of our faith, ha, my mistake.
If you pay close attention to the Apostle's Creed, you will notice that it SUPPORTS what we have been saying regarding pro-abortion, socialistic politicians.
According to your logic, because the Apostle's Creed doesn't mention it specifically, I can be a syncretist (believing that all religions are equal paths to God), I can be a gnostic, I can believe in reincarnation ... except for one little thing.
The Apostle's Creed states SPECIFICALLY, "I believe in the Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints ..." This is to say that "I Believe" that all the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church are directed, protected, and maintained by the Holy Spirit. In other words, you SUBMIT to the authority and the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church, regardless of whether it is specifically mentioned in the Creed or not.
As such, the Creed is NOT all that you are bound to. If the Holy Catholic Church says that Catholic Politicians excommunicate themselves by publically supporting, in a political office or other, ANYTHING antithetical to Catholic teaching, then that excommunication is binding here as well as in Heaven. Period. No discussion, no squabbling ... those politicians are de facto OUTSIDE of the Church.
When Politicians advocate Marxist ideals (90% of the Democrat platform) which have been condemned by the Church, when politicians advocate immorality (such as homosexuality, abortion, contraception, etc), and when politicians promote syncretism, naturalism, and modernism, they remove themselves from the Church because they DENY the belief in the Holy Catholic Church, mentioned in the Creed.
In regards to heresy trials … they SHOULD be enacted. While a church court holds no temporal weight in the United States (meaning a convicted heretic in a Catholic Court will see no jail time, fines, etc) such a trial would act as a public condemnation of such actions and send a message to the rest of the Catholic world that such beliefs and actions are completely incompatible with Catholic teaching. You bet we should have heresy trials, if for no other reason than to put an end to the confusion existent in the Church regarding what is ok and what is not.
Talk to me when you've gotten your law degree from a Catholic law school. Until then, talk about what you know and leave the rest to the professionals.
Riley: I was confused on your use of the term heresy; I certainly am not as read as i should be on the subject.
In regards to: "Until then, talk about what you know and leave the rest to the professionals." Famous last words:-)
1) The Apostle's Creed contains the bottom line statements regarding what is required to believe in order to be Catholic, however, as I pointed out, there is an awful LOT beneath each statement in order for the fulness of belief to be present. The Apostle's Creed doesn't say that you have to go to Mass every Sunday, but as a Catholic, you are bound to do such a thing. The Apostle's Creed also doesn't mention that one must NOT receive Holy Communion while in a state of Mortal sin, but to do so is sacrelidge. The Apostle's Creed doesn't mention that a Catholic who becomes a Freemason automatically excommunicates himself, but such is outlined in several papal encyclicals.
There is a plethora of things one must believe which are not properly defined by the Apostle's Creed. Take a good look at Pope Pius IX's Syllabus of Errors http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm or Pope Pius X's Oath against Modernism http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10moath.htm or Pope Gregory XVI's encyclical on Liberalism and Religious Indifferentism http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/G16MIRAR.HTM, or Pope Pius XI's encyclical on Reconstruction of the Social Order (condemning liberalism) http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11QUADR.HTM, or Pope Leo XIII's Encyclical on Socialism (condemning it, and I want you to keep closely in mind that MUCH of the Democrat platform is socialistic) http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13APOST.HTM. These encyclicals are 100% binding on ALL Catholics, and if you deny even one of them, then you deny the "belief in the Holy Catholic Church". When you compare what the Church professes and binds on all of her members and you compare these with the platforms of the Democrat party, you will find very quickly that those platforms are incompatible with the Catholic Church.
You seem like an intelligent person. If you want to be intellectually honest, then become as informed as possible and see for yourself what I just outlined for you.
2) We wouldn't try governors for heresy for carrying out death sentences because the death sentence is not antithetical to the faith. While it may be argued that the death penalty is no longer a just form of punishment (I still go back and forth on this issue), the Church has not outrightly condemned the practice. It HAS, however, condemned the practice of abortion, and all members of the Church are bound to support this condemnation. Personally, I think that an interdict should be called in all areas where a "Catholic" politician is actively supporting the practice of abortion. For instance, do you think that Catholics would vote for Ted Kennedy if they were denied the sacraments because they elected him for his pro-abortion stance?
In light of your Catholic beliefs, how can you reconcile your faith (remember the encyclicals I posted) with the Democrat platform?
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