- comment
Mason Conservative - body
- Shaun,
Great post. I take a bit of a different route. Its not what Lowell says that is the problem. What is great about the blogosphere is that you can post in a stream of conscienceness style and its ok. The rules are relaxed, so to speak, and we all undersatnd it.
The problem is that he is PAID by the campaign. Its different when folks like me are getting emails from Jon Henke. He just throws stuff out there and we can do whatever we want. I'm not making one dime off of this. But when your a paid staffer, you represent the campaign all the time, and the candidate is responsible for what you say. If Lowell called Wadhams "Dick Wad(hams)" and he wasn't paid, I might chuckle or whatever. But when your a PAID staffer, its much much different. Know what I mean?
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- Oh I agree with you entirely. You don't pay someone, then say "go do whatever you want -- it's not on me," then wink and nod.
Hit men are hired for that purpose.
Add onto the pile though -- I don't think I would have so much of a problem with a paid staffer working the netroots if the conversation were respectful in tone. Certainly there are plenty of Virginia Democrats who blog (Vivian Paige, Waldo Jaquith are two that immediately come to mind) that would do a far better job at expositioning the Democratic candidate than Lowell Field's screeds have accomplished.
Lowell is just plain embarassing, not just for the Dems but for the blogosphere as a whole. But now I'm ranting... :)
- comment JPRS2010
- body
- Personally, I think an apology from the relatively Webb staffers to the offended individuals is appropriate. Where legitimate offense is taken, a legitimate apology should be given.
No excuses, linguistic weaseling, shifting blame etc, or waiting two weeks to decide whether or not an apology is appropriate.
The relatively low-level Webb staffers can demonstrate to our junior Senator the appropriate way to deliver an apology when offense is taken.
- comment Dvt guy
- body
- Shaun -
I think you should amend your post to say "Coordinated calls from Republican bloggers and supporters of Allen to fire Lowell Feld"
- comment Jason Kenney
- body
- What is an "a tool" and when did Shaun get one? More importantly, how did you get it to have to return it, Bill?
- comment Charles
- body
- I hadn't actually caught on to what Lowell was doing to Wadham's name until just now.
I guess it's OK again to make fun of the names of campaign staffers, as well as the candidates, just so long as they are republicans.
As I said many times before, making fun of people's names is about the most childish acts one can make. This is why Allen had to apologize, it's why Webb should have apologized, it's why the Webb Campaign still looks like a bunch of children.
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- You know you've hit a spot when the liberals start calling you names. Heh.
Co-ordinated calls VC? Wow -- I certainly haven't been on that memo, so that probably tells you that it's not so co-ordinated after all...
Lowell Field should be excoriated by every thinking blogger in Virginia.
At best, JTERP has the right idea: Lowell apologizes sincerely and we all move on.
- comment Doug in Metro DC
- body
- Look, I never liked using "Felix" or the ploy on Wahdams' name. It's just not necessary, and it's certainly not civil.
However, none of this de-legitimizes what Lowell and other Democratic bloggers have to say about Allen, etc.
Also, y'all Republican bloggers need to watch for some pot & kettle comparisons here, because I could find NUMEROUS examples of complete and utter disrespect, unprofessionalism, and sheer nastiness in your ranks.
One other point: you reap what you sow. Ever since the GOP began injecting utter vitriol into mainstream politics in the late 70's, this is where we are. It escalated to unprecedented levels in the Clinton years, and y'all are in some ways reaping what was sown back then, now during the years of incompetence and disgrace of the Bush-era farces.
Oh yeah, and do you think we can expect the same high-mindedness from the likes of Galanti and Wadhams? I'm sure not holding my breath!
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- What does that have to do with Lowell's unprofessionalism or behavior?
Certainly you're not suggesting that Lowell is justified because of the bad behavior of others? We're smarter than that (I hope) -- Lord knows I certainly don't teach my kids that.
- comment Charlie Bishop
- body
- Waldo,
You fail to mention that is was promoted by Josh, which put his seal of approval on it. And then Lowell adds a tasteless comment of his own in the comment section.
Pretty much placing James Webb's seal of approval on it as well, since he refuses to comment on their tactics.
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- Waldo, if someone made comments like that on my site I would call them out.
What I would not do is pour fuel on the fire by suggesting that the ethnicities invited were Irish, German, white, Caucasian, etc.
Adding to the melee as Lowell has done goes far worse. Certainly he doesn't increase the level of discourse, and he's in a unique position to do so.
I appreciate the sensitivities towards diaries and such, but qui tacet consentiret -- silence grants consent.
- comment Charles
- body
- Waldo, you do bring up a good point however. In many ways, a "diary" on DailyKos is like a blog on blogger.com.
So when you hear that DailyKos is the biggest "blog" in the internet, realise that it's mostly because it aggregates so many blogs under one roof.
Now, Raising Kaine has adopted the same style, with an obviously much much smaller set of diaries.
That said, Josh posted to their thread asking them to contact him officially, and Lowell also commented on the thread. Lowell's comments, if made by a republican, would have earned the ire of the mock whiners.
In addition, neither Lowell, nor Josh, nor for that matter other contributers, expressed the slightest doubts about the appropriateness of the thread.
It's hard for me to get too worked up about it, as I don't find ANY of this stuff on either side nearly as upsetting as the left seems to find things upsetting.
Very revealing is their reaction to the fictionalized documentary 9/11 on ABC. It shows you how biased to the left most TV shows are that the left is so outraged by this lack of perfection. We on the right put up with false information from TV shows and newscasts on a daily basis, it's just part of what you live with watching TV.
But the lies work for the left so often that a few errors in 9/11 has shocked, shocked them into taking official action by their highest elected officials to threaten a broadcast network with prior restraint and license revocation -- certainly an attempt at government censorship. At least in 2004 it was Kerry's campaign, and not the elected members of government, that sued to get a network not to run something damaging to him.
- comment Megan
- body
- So, the determining factor on what is said is whether or not someone is being paid while saying it?
jeez...I can't believe we're having this discussion.
Look, let them say what they want to...people will see it for what it is.
If Lowell does poorly then he won't be hired again.....
- comment Karen Duncan
- body
- Shaun,
You have a good point about those bloggers who constantly refer to George Allen as "Felix" and mangle Dick Wadhams' name. So, when are you going to also criticize BVBL for constantly referring to Jeanette Rishell as "Moonfruit" which is not just making fun of somebody's name but is truly insulting?
As for Michael Shear serving as the disinterested referee, that's laughable. Shear needs to pay attention to keeping his own reporting accurate before he serves as anybody's conscience. Likewise the whole Washington Post which sometimes gets it right but often doesn't.
The blogosphere is not made up of professional journalists who have an obligation to report facts accurately and in an unbiased way as a newspaper does.
Some bloggers would make excellent journalists. But a lot are frankly partisan. The blogosphere, like any truly public square, is often a free for all slugfest. For better or worse, what makes it interesting is that anybody can get a free blog and start posting.
No other blogger represents me. If some bloggers want to be over the top, become paid political consultants, or engage in hyperbole, that's their right. But they don't represent me. And if I say or do something stupid (and I know I do lots of times), they also shouldn't be tarred by the same feather for my posts. I don't represent them.
And certainly, no campaign should be held responsible for what bloggers post.
I realize that because Lowell is a paid consultant as well as a blogger his situation is a little different with respect to the Webb campaign. But I'm talking in general. George Allen shouldn't be held accountable for something an over the top blogger not in his employ says and neither should Jim Webb.
- comment Unknown
- body
- Architecture and Urbanism as if the future mattered.More than half the people on the planet now live in cities. The challenge now is now to make a resource efficient lifestyle. He gave the example of a slum in Sierra Leone on the sea shore. As the sea level rises this will be at great risk, but people settle there because its is a place where economic opportunity lies. the problem is that these slums do not even have the provision of the most basic services because the residents have no tenure.
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johnyymathew
Virigina drug rehab
- comment thomson2008
- body
- As I have mentioned so often in this blog, my own sensibility is intensely dialectical—whether in terms of body and soul, faith and history, reason and revelation, or, as in the preceding blog question, salvation and works. That sensibility probably came from 19 years as a Roman Catholic monk in a thirteenth century semi-cloistered Roman Catholic religious order. And despite its many faults, I have always been fascinated by one aspect of that century.
======================
Thomson
washington drug rehab
16 Comments:
Great post. I take a bit of a different route. Its not what Lowell says that is the problem. What is great about the blogosphere is that you can post in a stream of conscienceness style and its ok. The rules are relaxed, so to speak, and we all undersatnd it.
The problem is that he is PAID by the campaign. Its different when folks like me are getting emails from Jon Henke. He just throws stuff out there and we can do whatever we want. I'm not making one dime off of this. But when your a paid staffer, you represent the campaign all the time, and the candidate is responsible for what you say. If Lowell called Wadhams "Dick Wad(hams)" and he wasn't paid, I might chuckle or whatever. But when your a PAID staffer, its much much different. Know what I mean?
Hit men are hired for that purpose.
Add onto the pile though -- I don't think I would have so much of a problem with a paid staffer working the netroots if the conversation were respectful in tone. Certainly there are plenty of Virginia Democrats who blog (Vivian Paige, Waldo Jaquith are two that immediately come to mind) that would do a far better job at expositioning the Democratic candidate than Lowell Field's screeds have accomplished.
Lowell is just plain embarassing, not just for the Dems but for the blogosphere as a whole. But now I'm ranting... :)
No excuses, linguistic weaseling, shifting blame etc, or waiting two weeks to decide whether or not an apology is appropriate.
The relatively low-level Webb staffers can demonstrate to our junior Senator the appropriate way to deliver an apology when offense is taken.
I think you should amend your post to say "Coordinated calls from Republican bloggers and supporters of Allen to fire Lowell Feld"
I guess it's OK again to make fun of the names of campaign staffers, as well as the candidates, just so long as they are republicans.
As I said many times before, making fun of people's names is about the most childish acts one can make. This is why Allen had to apologize, it's why Webb should have apologized, it's why the Webb Campaign still looks like a bunch of children.
Co-ordinated calls VC? Wow -- I certainly haven't been on that memo, so that probably tells you that it's not so co-ordinated after all...
Lowell Field should be excoriated by every thinking blogger in Virginia.
At best, JTERP has the right idea: Lowell apologizes sincerely and we all move on.
However, none of this de-legitimizes what Lowell and other Democratic bloggers have to say about Allen, etc.
Also, y'all Republican bloggers need to watch for some pot & kettle comparisons here, because I could find NUMEROUS examples of complete and utter disrespect, unprofessionalism, and sheer nastiness in your ranks.
One other point: you reap what you sow. Ever since the GOP began injecting utter vitriol into mainstream politics in the late 70's, this is where we are. It escalated to unprecedented levels in the Clinton years, and y'all are in some ways reaping what was sown back then, now during the years of incompetence and disgrace of the Bush-era farces.
Oh yeah, and do you think we can expect the same high-mindedness from the likes of Galanti and Wadhams? I'm sure not holding my breath!
Certainly you're not suggesting that Lowell is justified because of the bad behavior of others? We're smarter than that (I hope) -- Lord knows I certainly don't teach my kids that.
You fail to mention that is was promoted by Josh, which put his seal of approval on it. And then Lowell adds a tasteless comment of his own in the comment section.
Pretty much placing James Webb's seal of approval on it as well, since he refuses to comment on their tactics.
What I would not do is pour fuel on the fire by suggesting that the ethnicities invited were Irish, German, white, Caucasian, etc.
Adding to the melee as Lowell has done goes far worse. Certainly he doesn't increase the level of discourse, and he's in a unique position to do so.
I appreciate the sensitivities towards diaries and such, but qui tacet consentiret -- silence grants consent.
So when you hear that DailyKos is the biggest "blog" in the internet, realise that it's mostly because it aggregates so many blogs under one roof.
Now, Raising Kaine has adopted the same style, with an obviously much much smaller set of diaries.
That said, Josh posted to their thread asking them to contact him officially, and Lowell also commented on the thread. Lowell's comments, if made by a republican, would have earned the ire of the mock whiners.
In addition, neither Lowell, nor Josh, nor for that matter other contributers, expressed the slightest doubts about the appropriateness of the thread.
It's hard for me to get too worked up about it, as I don't find ANY of this stuff on either side nearly as upsetting as the left seems to find things upsetting.
Very revealing is their reaction to the fictionalized documentary 9/11 on ABC. It shows you how biased to the left most TV shows are that the left is so outraged by this lack of perfection. We on the right put up with false information from TV shows and newscasts on a daily basis, it's just part of what you live with watching TV.
But the lies work for the left so often that a few errors in 9/11 has shocked, shocked them into taking official action by their highest elected officials to threaten a broadcast network with prior restraint and license revocation -- certainly an attempt at government censorship. At least in 2004 it was Kerry's campaign, and not the elected members of government, that sued to get a network not to run something damaging to him.
jeez...I can't believe we're having this discussion.
Look, let them say what they want to...people will see it for what it is.
If Lowell does poorly then he won't be hired again.....
You have a good point about those bloggers who constantly refer to George Allen as "Felix" and mangle Dick Wadhams' name. So, when are you going to also criticize BVBL for constantly referring to Jeanette Rishell as "Moonfruit" which is not just making fun of somebody's name but is truly insulting?
As for Michael Shear serving as the disinterested referee, that's laughable. Shear needs to pay attention to keeping his own reporting accurate before he serves as anybody's conscience. Likewise the whole Washington Post which sometimes gets it right but often doesn't.
The blogosphere is not made up of professional journalists who have an obligation to report facts accurately and in an unbiased way as a newspaper does.
Some bloggers would make excellent journalists. But a lot are frankly partisan. The blogosphere, like any truly public square, is often a free for all slugfest. For better or worse, what makes it interesting is that anybody can get a free blog and start posting.
No other blogger represents me. If some bloggers want to be over the top, become paid political consultants, or engage in hyperbole, that's their right. But they don't represent me. And if I say or do something stupid (and I know I do lots of times), they also shouldn't be tarred by the same feather for my posts. I don't represent them.
And certainly, no campaign should be held responsible for what bloggers post.
I realize that because Lowell is a paid consultant as well as a blogger his situation is a little different with respect to the Webb campaign. But I'm talking in general. George Allen shouldn't be held accountable for something an over the top blogger not in his employ says and neither should Jim Webb.
---------------------
johnyymathew
Virigina drug rehab
======================
Thomson
washington drug rehab
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