- comment
Shaun Kenney - body
- Historic speech?
I listened to Obama. Excellent speech.
Then Jim Webb got up to speak... and the crowd got quiet... and my interest level dropped off...
Wow -- I didn't realize what a terrible public speaker he was until now. With a crowd prepped and riled up like that, to hand it to Webb.
Historic allright. A historic yawn.
- comment Mike
- body
- Wow ... Dems want to roast George Allen alive for MAYBE using race-charged slang (all hear-say), but they will defend Jim Webb's favorable use of Marx's ideas in his political speeches(on record)?
I'm not sure if that is desperation or sheer stupidity. Whatever it is, it certainly is NOT intellectually honest, but no one ever charged liberals with that sort of thing anyway.
- comment QuestRepublic
- body
- A few quick thoughts:
1) Thomas Jefferson had a reputation in his day as a dry, non-inspiring public speaker; probably could not get elected in the media circus world of today.
2) Marx was a pioneer in Sociology, Economics and other fields. He was also a respected reporter of the US Civil War. Using "Marx" as some sort of boogey-man sounds like the sort of slurs that Nixon used Vice-President Spiro Agnew for.
3) Webb fought Communists in Vietnam. Do you suspect that maybe he has a little more thoughtful appreciation of both Marx and Communists (please do not confuse the two) than some of the mud-slingers we are hearing from?
- comment Mike
- body
- 1) To say that Karl Marx is a pioneer in Sociology, Economics and other fields is like saying that Josef Mengele was a pioneer in medicine, DNA testing, and other fields. Karl Marx was a monster, just as Mengele was. Karl Marx also wrote satanic poetry and plays, illustrating his abject hatred for mankind. Does it really matter that he was a “respected reporter”? Mengele was a respected physician. Marx wasn’t “some sort of boogey-man”, he was a very evil man who propagated an evil philosophy that created one of the most evil regimes the earth has ever known.
2) So what if Webb fought in Vietnam. While he was in the heat of battle, was he also trying to carry on meaningful discussions on philosophy with the communists? No, he saw the despicable fruit of Marx’s philosophies and should know better than to speak favorably of his writings.
3) There is no difference between Marx and communists. Marx professed to BE a communist. Regardless of the manner in which it was instituted or maintained (Leninism, Stalinism, etc.) the ideals behind the institution are bad to begin with.
- comment QuestRepublic
- body
- Thank you for your response to my post.
Jim Webb's understanding of Economic Theory would be very useful in the senate, in dealing with some of the problems we face:
1) Record-high National Debt
2) Balooning direct cost of the Iraq war and indirect cost to restore the readiness levels of our armed forces that have been hollowed-out by this poorly-managed conflict that Jim Webb warned against early-on. The Army Chief of Staff did not even submit a budget this August, because he says the Army is underfunded by over $40 BILLION.
Just a few quick clips from Wikipedia:
"Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818, Trier, Germany – March 14, 1883, London, England) was an immensely influential German philosopher, political economist, and socialist revolutionary. .."
"The relation of Marx's own thought to the popular "Marxist" interpretations of it during this period is a point of controversy; he himself once said that "the only thing I know is that I'm not a Marxist" (in response to the views of a French Social-Democratic Party). While Marx's ideas have declined in popularity, particularly since the collapse of the Soviet regime, they are still very influential today, both in academic circles, some worker movements, and in political practice, and Marxism continues to be the official ideology of some Communist states and political movements."
***********************************
Those who have studied the "ART OF WAR" have learned that it pays to know your enemy; perhaps that is more effective than merely calling them evil.
My Best Regards to You All
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- I'll address your points as they come:
1) Jefferson was a very good public speaker -- this is the same gentleman who was elected Governor, President, to the House of Delegates, represented Virginia to the Continental Congress, etc. For the age of the Enlightenment, he was a man (and speaker) of his age.
2) Marx's economic theory is flawed, as is communism. I wonder if Democrats would so easily gloss over Allen quoting such philosophers and Nietsche or Heidigger?
3) Webb's war record isn't the issue. Rather, the issue is to whom does Webb look towards for intellectual guidance? Quoting Marx is certainly something a European socialist would do. Furthermore, you cannot hope to separate Marx from Communism -- that's absurd.
I don't believe for a moment that Marx is an acceptable source for political opinion. Period. Should we quote Lenin next? Gorges Sorel? I certainly don't intend to use Marxism as a "boogeyman", but I definitely object to those who look to his writings as a positive good for humanity.
- comment QuestRepublic
- body
- Dear Shaun,
Thanks for your comments. Looks like I was not very clear in my reference to Thomas Jefferson.
What I meant to show was that, even though Jefferson was considered by many of his contemporaries to be an indifferent public speaker, that did not keep him from making tremendously important contributions in a variety of endevours.
On the other hand, in this age of telegenic personalities, a man like Jefferson might be overlooked.
Regards,
7 Comments:
I listened to Obama. Excellent speech.
Then Jim Webb got up to speak... and the crowd got quiet... and my interest level dropped off...
Wow -- I didn't realize what a terrible public speaker he was until now. With a crowd prepped and riled up like that, to hand it to Webb.
Historic allright. A historic yawn.
I'm not sure if that is desperation or sheer stupidity. Whatever it is, it certainly is NOT intellectually honest, but no one ever charged liberals with that sort of thing anyway.
1) Thomas Jefferson had a reputation in his day as a dry, non-inspiring public speaker; probably could not get elected in the media circus world of today.
2) Marx was a pioneer in Sociology, Economics and other fields. He was also a respected reporter of the US Civil War. Using "Marx" as some sort of boogey-man sounds like the sort of slurs that Nixon used Vice-President Spiro Agnew for.
3) Webb fought Communists in Vietnam. Do you suspect that maybe he has a little more thoughtful appreciation of both Marx and Communists (please do not confuse the two) than some of the mud-slingers we are hearing from?
2) So what if Webb fought in Vietnam. While he was in the heat of battle, was he also trying to carry on meaningful discussions on philosophy with the communists? No, he saw the despicable fruit of Marx’s philosophies and should know better than to speak favorably of his writings.
3) There is no difference between Marx and communists. Marx professed to BE a communist. Regardless of the manner in which it was instituted or maintained (Leninism, Stalinism, etc.) the ideals behind the institution are bad to begin with.
Jim Webb's understanding of Economic Theory would be very useful in the senate, in dealing with some of the problems we face:
1) Record-high National Debt
2) Balooning direct cost of the Iraq war and indirect cost to restore the readiness levels of our armed forces that have been hollowed-out by this poorly-managed conflict that Jim Webb warned against early-on. The Army Chief of Staff did not even submit a budget this August, because he says the Army is underfunded by over $40 BILLION.
Just a few quick clips from Wikipedia:
"Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818, Trier, Germany – March 14, 1883, London, England) was an immensely influential German philosopher, political economist, and socialist revolutionary. .."
"The relation of Marx's own thought to the popular "Marxist" interpretations of it during this period is a point of controversy; he himself once said that "the only thing I know is that I'm not a Marxist" (in response to the views of a French Social-Democratic Party). While Marx's ideas have declined in popularity, particularly since the collapse of the Soviet regime, they are still very influential today, both in academic circles, some worker movements, and in political practice, and Marxism continues to be the official ideology of some Communist states and political movements."
***********************************
Those who have studied the "ART OF WAR" have learned that it pays to know your enemy; perhaps that is more effective than merely calling them evil.
My Best Regards to You All
1) Jefferson was a very good public speaker -- this is the same gentleman who was elected Governor, President, to the House of Delegates, represented Virginia to the Continental Congress, etc. For the age of the Enlightenment, he was a man (and speaker) of his age.
2) Marx's economic theory is flawed, as is communism. I wonder if Democrats would so easily gloss over Allen quoting such philosophers and Nietsche or Heidigger?
3) Webb's war record isn't the issue. Rather, the issue is to whom does Webb look towards for intellectual guidance? Quoting Marx is certainly something a European socialist would do. Furthermore, you cannot hope to separate Marx from Communism -- that's absurd.
I don't believe for a moment that Marx is an acceptable source for political opinion. Period. Should we quote Lenin next? Gorges Sorel? I certainly don't intend to use Marxism as a "boogeyman", but I definitely object to those who look to his writings as a positive good for humanity.
Thanks for your comments. Looks like I was not very clear in my reference to Thomas Jefferson.
What I meant to show was that, even though Jefferson was considered by many of his contemporaries to be an indifferent public speaker, that did not keep him from making tremendously important contributions in a variety of endevours.
On the other hand, in this age of telegenic personalities, a man like Jefferson might be overlooked.
Regards,
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