- comment
Jackson Landers - body
- I agree with you entirely that this is a really good thing. While it's important to have masses available in languages that are actually understandable to the congregation there should still be room within the church for traditional worship. That is one of the things that really make Catholicism unique among the Christian world (with the exception of certain groups like the Russian Orthadox church and the Copts). The 2,000 year old continuous tradition of a single culture and organization. By banning the traditional mass entirely I think that the church turned it's back on a big part of what makes it special.
A few days ago I was in an amazing old marble church for a wedding in Cleveland and thinking about what a shame it is how so many modern churches lack the slightest token of real reverance for the church's traditions. It's hard to tell the difference between most newly-built Catholic church buildings and an office building. Half the 'mass' consists of announcements about bake sales and youth activities. In the total absence of the ancient traditions, the whole exercise becomes little more than a social club.
While I like my politics generally centrist, I've have never seen anything wrong with a traditional and conservative approach to the leadership of the Catholic church.
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- Thank you for that, Jack.
Of course, traditionalist and conservative in the Catholic sense has far different meanings than the liberal/conservative definitions in politics.
Always interesting to watch the major parties try to figure out the all-elusive "Catholic Voter". :)
I am glad to see the Tridentine Mass come back, if this is indeed true.
- comment Jackson Landers
- body
- Catholics in America have always seemed much more committed to the idea of seperation of church and state than protestants have in the last century or so. It's a hard nut to crack for any politician and since prejudice against Catholics ended in America long ago I don't see any tendency to vote as a bloc.
Like most people who were raised in the Catholic church, I can accept the wisdom of the Bible's statement that it is wrong to covet one's neighbor's goods, but I would never support a law to actually make it illegal simply to desire another person's property. The same idea frequently carries over to Catholics' positions on abortion or the death penalty. So wedge issues don't work for either party.
I suppose that it is the same principle at work as when Dick Cheney characterized energy conservation as an excellent personal virtue but an unwise basis for government policy.
- comment Rick Sincere
- body
- How can you say the Tridentine Mass was in use for "1,500 years"? The Tridentine Mass dates only to the Council of Trent, which was held from 1545 to 1563.
That means the Tridentine rite was in general use for a little over 400 years. And it was never adopted by Eastern Rite Catholics or other non-Latin churches in union with Rome.
The rite that was developed following the Second Vatican Council actually incorporates older forms of the Mass that were dropped by the Council of Trent (one example -- the exchange of a sign of peace).
To say the Mass was unchanged for "1,500 years" is simply ahistorical.
4 Comments:
A few days ago I was in an amazing old marble church for a wedding in Cleveland and thinking about what a shame it is how so many modern churches lack the slightest token of real reverance for the church's traditions. It's hard to tell the difference between most newly-built Catholic church buildings and an office building. Half the 'mass' consists of announcements about bake sales and youth activities. In the total absence of the ancient traditions, the whole exercise becomes little more than a social club.
While I like my politics generally centrist, I've have never seen anything wrong with a traditional and conservative approach to the leadership of the Catholic church.
Of course, traditionalist and conservative in the Catholic sense has far different meanings than the liberal/conservative definitions in politics.
Always interesting to watch the major parties try to figure out the all-elusive "Catholic Voter". :)
I am glad to see the Tridentine Mass come back, if this is indeed true.
Like most people who were raised in the Catholic church, I can accept the wisdom of the Bible's statement that it is wrong to covet one's neighbor's goods, but I would never support a law to actually make it illegal simply to desire another person's property. The same idea frequently carries over to Catholics' positions on abortion or the death penalty. So wedge issues don't work for either party.
I suppose that it is the same principle at work as when Dick Cheney characterized energy conservation as an excellent personal virtue but an unwise basis for government policy.
That means the Tridentine rite was in general use for a little over 400 years. And it was never adopted by Eastern Rite Catholics or other non-Latin churches in union with Rome.
The rite that was developed following the Second Vatican Council actually incorporates older forms of the Mass that were dropped by the Council of Trent (one example -- the exchange of a sign of peace).
To say the Mass was unchanged for "1,500 years" is simply ahistorical.
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