- comment
Spank That Donkey - body
- MSM outlets do consider bloggers pests at best, maybe competetion at worst? The later seems to be the case in what you just described shaun...
During the Sayre campaign, Bloggers4Sayre started pounding home that Emmett actually authored legislation to allow in state tuition to illegal aliens... one parent had to be legal for three years for the illegal child to qualify....
It prompted this editorial cartoon
http://bloggers4sayre.blogspot.com/2007/06/b4s-accused-of-hate-speech.html
which maybe a first in the Virginia Blogosphere of a MSM outlet seeking to discredit a group of local bloggers going after "their" candidate....
MSM Message: we are full of 'hate speech", and a huge story of a Senator sending out mailers denying his own legislation.. (not a peep from Staunton News Leader)
Had that been Ken Cuccinelli or any of the 'Gang of Six'.... they'd have been all over it....
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- STD, I think you got it right... but we should be extremely careful to exaggerate our importance beyond what it really is.
Like most things, they only matter if they are talked about. SWACers got the MSM to start talking about them -- or better, the opposition started talking about the blogs.
You're right -- it's a first. My question at this point is whether or not the old cycle of blogs spinning up enough dust to get the MSM's attention is going to last much longer, as the MSM (rather than tightening up their ethical standards) begins to loosen them a bit in order to "compete" with the blogs.
Not a fun world.
- comment Spank That Donkey
- body
- The MSM wants to control the message period. That is why the SNL was so riled up. They know now maybe 5% of voters read them for info presently.
However, ten years from now when probably 20% of the voters are getting their info. from the net established bloggers such as yourself will hold sway, much like a syndicated columnist.
That is how I see it evolving... Print media is dying, but hopefully will make a comeback... as I love to read a printed newspaper... just not one printed by the SNL or WaPo.... I get my news from the Washington Times....
If the Washington Times were printed nationwide like the USA Today... The Dems would never win another election.... The MSM has dumbed down the news so much that probably the blogs actually delving down into issues also embarrasses them when a reader finally realizes what the MSM has been up to the whole time...
The same thing happened to me in college... The professors all sounded good, but once you got into reading some more, then find the practical application of how govt. the press, and even yes the University you are going too really operates..... I just became a Hard Core Conservative....
- comment Spank That Donkey
- body
- Rereading your comment Shaun, I see you were driving at the ethics.. that the MSM will loosen their ethics to the level of bloggers...
Well you are exactly right that bloggers should raise their ethical level, but ethics is of course 'in the eye of the beholder', but their should be a standard, and establishing credibility being the key/goal...
The blogosphere is a free for all.. but you also have the aggregators who could establish a code of ethics also... Set up moderators....
for instance last year at about this very time... we had the 'GGD Affair' sparked by the Conservative blogger GGD posting the photo of a beheaded American at the hands of a Muslim Extremist..... you know the story, Waldo banned GGD...
well, just this week this post from the Liberal blog Mosquito went through both aggregators and no cries of foul, much less Waldo banning Mosquito...
http://mosquito-blog.blogspot.com/2007/12/third-anniversay-of-second-attack-on.html
no less gruesome, but where was the outrage... h/t btw to Jonathan Maxfield for sending me over the link...
I think if we could get independent aggregators with credible moderators over seeing them & enforcing the same set of standards.... You may just have something...
- comment Citizen Tom
- body
- I can see why STD found this post a bit confusing. What is the message? Ethics are important? Bloggers are not important? Or is it that in order to have sufficient credibility to be taken seriously, bloggers must behave honorably?
I wish truly honorable behavior was the sole requirement needed to be taken seriously, but the communications process is more complex than that. When I send my readers a message, how my readers perceive that message is just as important as the quality of the message itself. Even if I make a great effort to be unrelentingly honorable, my readers may still not perceive me as a reliable source.
This is where the mainstream news media perhaps has its biggest advantage. We live in a society that too often equates monetary success with honorable behavior. The word of a "winner" is too often perceived as honorable simply because the winner is the winner.
What it comes down to values. What is honorable? What is right, and what is wrong? Not everyone sees the choice between right and wrong as immutable. For too many, I fear, right is whatever appears to work. For some, the ethical choice depends upon the situation.
Just as people act based upon what they believe, people choose what they read based upon what they believe. So is not enough to be truly honorable; to be an effective force for good, we also have to be persuasive.
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- Well, two points:
(1) If a blog exists as a lapdog of the MSM, constantly seeking the approval and approbation of peers, then not only will this hurt the medium, it's selling out to an industry that sees blogs as the enemy (and will treat them as such when they step out of line).
(2) If a blog exists as a watchdog or to add to the "public square" as it were, then what the MSM reports, sees, or infers doesn't mean squat.
In short, this whole debacle has everything to do with ethics and integrity... for those who have eyes to see it.
If you're going to pick a fight with the MSM, then do so on those two merits -- integrity and ethics. Do it on anything other than this, and the MSM will pound the crap out of both the offending blogs and the medium as a whole, damaging the reputation of political bloggers.
Rising tides lift all boats... as outgoing tides lower all boats.
I'm all for a free marketplace of ideas... but consider at least that we do have a "brand" to protect as political bloggers from any persuasion (liberal, conservative, progressive, or libertarian).
- comment Citizen Tom
- body
- I think I see the problem. You see the communications medium itself as a brand. Nope.
Just as each newspaper or network news show is its own brand, each blog is its own brand.
Each blog is subservient only to the blog's writer(s). The blogs you are concerned about exist primarily to gain an audience. The MSM explicitly exists to provide an audience for advertisers. These people tend write whatever they think will attract an audience. Ethical considerations too often matter very little to them.
That is why I say persuasion is important. The rewards for unethical behavior can be very tempting. When we want people to behave ethically, we must convince them that the rewards for unethical behavior come at too high a price, and we must show them the alternative.
What is such persuasion? Some call it preaching.
- comment Jason Kenney
- body
- Tom: The thing is, the blogosphere as a medium is a brand. It's too new and confusing to outsiders to be anything other than the sum of its parts, especially given the nature of blogs to echo and feed off of one another for content. The viral nature of the medium makes every member intertwined and allows the MSM and others unfamiliar with the medium to make broad, blanket statements that impact us all. We are currently and will continue to be defined by a loudest and lowest elements unless we step up and call those elements out.
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- Tom, I'd say both -- if the WaPo gets something wrong, do we necessarily blame the Post? Or do we blame the MSM as a whole?
Same with blogs... sure the one or handful of offending bloggers get the lion's share of the hit, but the medium itself gets taken one notch down too.
I think we're saying the same thing, only differently. :)
- comment Citizen Tom
- body
- How long have people been blogging on the Internet? Ten years, maybe? How will people regard the Internet and blogging ten years from now? Do any of us know? Based on these past ten years, do we have enough data to extrapolate what the future holds?
What can history teach us about blogging and its future? What past technologies have allowed individuals to cheaply publish news and opinions for the benefit of a reading audience? I chose the pseudonym of Thomas Paine (i.e., Citizen Tom) for a reason. When I consider blogging from the perspective of the past, I think of the pamphleteers of Paine's era. And I would not be surprised if our fates will be similar to those that befell the pamphleteers of the past.
Based upon what we know of those pamphleteers, I think our fates will depend upon largely upon chance, the content of our blogs, and salesmanship. What successful pamphleteers did is they evolved into corporately held newspapers and magazines.
Yes, the overall quality of blogging does affect readership, but as a practical matter, blogging is just another way for people to communicate. Thus, the real problem we each face from other bloggers is the sheer number of them. How do we rise above the din? How do our readers find us? With that in mind, we each instinctively practice a concept called market segmentation.
Market segmentation, however, provides only an immediate business solution; it does not solve a glaring technical problem. The technical key to our fate lies in solving the problem our readers have in finding us. Thus there are others, not newspapers such as the Washington Post or the Washington Times, who may hold the key to the fates of our blogs.
Google, Yahoo, and other search engines function as gatekeepers. Aggregators such as Blognetnews.com and Waldo’s Virginia Political Blogroll only provide welcome alternatives.
Technology development tends to be unpredictable. The efforts of government to control communications are predictably never ending. Consider what services certain large Internet companies have provided the Red Chinese. Then consider what some who run our government are itching to do.
10 Comments:
During the Sayre campaign, Bloggers4Sayre started pounding home that Emmett actually authored legislation to allow in state tuition to illegal aliens... one parent had to be legal for three years for the illegal child to qualify....
It prompted this editorial cartoon
http://bloggers4sayre.blogspot.com/2007/06/b4s-accused-of-hate-speech.html
which maybe a first in the Virginia Blogosphere of a MSM outlet seeking to discredit a group of local bloggers going after "their" candidate....
MSM Message: we are full of 'hate speech", and a huge story of a Senator sending out mailers denying his own legislation.. (not a peep from Staunton News Leader)
Had that been Ken Cuccinelli or any of the 'Gang of Six'.... they'd have been all over it....
Like most things, they only matter if they are talked about. SWACers got the MSM to start talking about them -- or better, the opposition started talking about the blogs.
You're right -- it's a first. My question at this point is whether or not the old cycle of blogs spinning up enough dust to get the MSM's attention is going to last much longer, as the MSM (rather than tightening up their ethical standards) begins to loosen them a bit in order to "compete" with the blogs.
Not a fun world.
However, ten years from now when probably 20% of the voters are getting their info. from the net established bloggers such as yourself will hold sway, much like a syndicated columnist.
That is how I see it evolving... Print media is dying, but hopefully will make a comeback... as I love to read a printed newspaper... just not one printed by the SNL or WaPo.... I get my news from the Washington Times....
If the Washington Times were printed nationwide like the USA Today... The Dems would never win another election.... The MSM has dumbed down the news so much that probably the blogs actually delving down into issues also embarrasses them when a reader finally realizes what the MSM has been up to the whole time...
The same thing happened to me in college... The professors all sounded good, but once you got into reading some more, then find the practical application of how govt. the press, and even yes the University you are going too really operates..... I just became a Hard Core Conservative....
Well you are exactly right that bloggers should raise their ethical level, but ethics is of course 'in the eye of the beholder', but their should be a standard, and establishing credibility being the key/goal...
The blogosphere is a free for all.. but you also have the aggregators who could establish a code of ethics also... Set up moderators....
for instance last year at about this very time... we had the 'GGD Affair' sparked by the Conservative blogger GGD posting the photo of a beheaded American at the hands of a Muslim Extremist..... you know the story, Waldo banned GGD...
well, just this week this post from the Liberal blog Mosquito went through both aggregators and no cries of foul, much less Waldo banning Mosquito...
http://mosquito-blog.blogspot.com/2007/12/third-anniversay-of-second-attack-on.html
no less gruesome, but where was the outrage... h/t btw to Jonathan Maxfield for sending me over the link...
I think if we could get independent aggregators with credible moderators over seeing them & enforcing the same set of standards.... You may just have something...
I wish truly honorable behavior was the sole requirement needed to be taken seriously, but the communications process is more complex than that. When I send my readers a message, how my readers perceive that message is just as important as the quality of the message itself. Even if I make a great effort to be unrelentingly honorable, my readers may still not perceive me as a reliable source.
This is where the mainstream news media perhaps has its biggest advantage. We live in a society that too often equates monetary success with honorable behavior. The word of a "winner" is too often perceived as honorable simply because the winner is the winner.
What it comes down to values. What is honorable? What is right, and what is wrong? Not everyone sees the choice between right and wrong as immutable. For too many, I fear, right is whatever appears to work. For some, the ethical choice depends upon the situation.
Just as people act based upon what they believe, people choose what they read based upon what they believe. So is not enough to be truly honorable; to be an effective force for good, we also have to be persuasive.
(1) If a blog exists as a lapdog of the MSM, constantly seeking the approval and approbation of peers, then not only will this hurt the medium, it's selling out to an industry that sees blogs as the enemy (and will treat them as such when they step out of line).
(2) If a blog exists as a watchdog or to add to the "public square" as it were, then what the MSM reports, sees, or infers doesn't mean squat.
In short, this whole debacle has everything to do with ethics and integrity... for those who have eyes to see it.
If you're going to pick a fight with the MSM, then do so on those two merits -- integrity and ethics. Do it on anything other than this, and the MSM will pound the crap out of both the offending blogs and the medium as a whole, damaging the reputation of political bloggers.
Rising tides lift all boats... as outgoing tides lower all boats.
I'm all for a free marketplace of ideas... but consider at least that we do have a "brand" to protect as political bloggers from any persuasion (liberal, conservative, progressive, or libertarian).
Just as each newspaper or network news show is its own brand, each blog is its own brand.
Each blog is subservient only to the blog's writer(s). The blogs you are concerned about exist primarily to gain an audience. The MSM explicitly exists to provide an audience for advertisers. These people tend write whatever they think will attract an audience. Ethical considerations too often matter very little to them.
That is why I say persuasion is important. The rewards for unethical behavior can be very tempting. When we want people to behave ethically, we must convince them that the rewards for unethical behavior come at too high a price, and we must show them the alternative.
What is such persuasion? Some call it preaching.
Same with blogs... sure the one or handful of offending bloggers get the lion's share of the hit, but the medium itself gets taken one notch down too.
I think we're saying the same thing, only differently. :)
What can history teach us about blogging and its future? What past technologies have allowed individuals to cheaply publish news and opinions for the benefit of a reading audience? I chose the pseudonym of Thomas Paine (i.e., Citizen Tom) for a reason. When I consider blogging from the perspective of the past, I think of the pamphleteers of Paine's era. And I would not be surprised if our fates will be similar to those that befell the pamphleteers of the past.
Based upon what we know of those pamphleteers, I think our fates will depend upon largely upon chance, the content of our blogs, and salesmanship. What successful pamphleteers did is they evolved into corporately held newspapers and magazines.
Yes, the overall quality of blogging does affect readership, but as a practical matter, blogging is just another way for people to communicate. Thus, the real problem we each face from other bloggers is the sheer number of them. How do we rise above the din? How do our readers find us? With that in mind, we each instinctively practice a concept called market segmentation.
Market segmentation, however, provides only an immediate business solution; it does not solve a glaring technical problem. The technical key to our fate lies in solving the problem our readers have in finding us. Thus there are others, not newspapers such as the Washington Post or the Washington Times, who may hold the key to the fates of our blogs.
Google, Yahoo, and other search engines function as gatekeepers. Aggregators such as Blognetnews.com and Waldo’s Virginia Political Blogroll only provide welcome alternatives.
Technology development tends to be unpredictable. The efforts of government to control communications are predictably never ending. Consider what services certain large Internet companies have provided the Red Chinese. Then consider what some who run our government are itching to do.
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